Thelma & James, both began their careers separately, using completely different stage names, MacKenzie Porter and Jake Etheridge, for their solo work. Their single, Happy Ever After You, is the couple’s first co-write in over a decade of being together. The EP, Starting Over is a fresh perspective from both artists emphasizing the fact that their careers are essentially starting anew together with this newfound blend of indie folk rock and country. In a conversation with BeatRoute, the two share their pathway to what they have now as a duo in music.

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Happy Ever After You came from your first co-write in over a decade of being together. What finally made you sit down and write together, and did you have any idea of what you were starting?

MacKenzie: We had no idea what we were starting. There was no plan. We hadn’t written a song in 10 years. You came in and wanted to write randomly. I was like, “What for?” And then, yeah, we wrote that song.

Jake: Yeah, we wrote it, and even after we wrote it and had gone viral, we were like, “Should we start a duo?” We were still having those conversations when it was all bubbling. We’re just the type of people that are like, “Hey, this will be a fun adventure. Let’s go for it.”

 
 

You said the best writing partner was right under your nose the whole entire time. Was there a conscious reason that you both kept your careers separate, or did it just happen that way?

MacKenzie: I think it was just that I was so busy with my solo stuff and Jake was so busy with his, and they were two very different styles. Mine was more down-the-middle country, and his was more indie folk-rock, I guess. We liked our own things, and then we’d come home and turn it off, and we liked that. I think, too, we didn’t think we would work well together because we’re very different people and very different personality types. But it actually really works—obviously in our marriage, but in our band too.

Jake: And we also just had not written together in so long. We met songwriting. I had a vague memory that we’d written together, but it had literally been a decade. So when we wrote that one song—in retrospect, that one was really easy to write. Since then, they’ve all been two minutes.

MacKenzie: Oh my God.

Jake: Yeah, very quick. So yeah, we happen to write well together. Whether we write good songs—we can write songs together, but we still write the bad ones too.

MacKenzie: It’s part of the process.

Jake: Exactly. I think with songwriting, two amazing songwriters can write poorly together. We just happen to write well together.

The name Thelma and James comes from your own middle and legal names, two names neither of you go by publicly. What made you want to root the project in something that personal?

MacKenzie: I think when we were coming up with a band name, we were thinking about what sounds cool, what we wanted people to feel when they heard the name. We just went back to using his legal name and my middle name because together they sounded like what the music sounds like—more organic, more honest. Both names are our grandparents’ names—my great-grandma and his grandfather and father. It feels truthful because it’s our family too, and that’s what the music sounds like.

Jake: Yeah, and the names are a version of ourselves, and this music’s a version of us.

MacKenzie: It’s been really cool, honestly. Especially on this tour, people call me Thelma. It’s weird. My dad calls me “Lee Thelma” because my other middle name is Lee, so I’ve heard it before and responded to it, but not from the masses.

The EP is called Starting Over, but you’re both established artists. What does starting over actually feel like when you already know who you are as an individual?

Jake: Honestly, the reason we named it that—there’s a song on there—but it was because we were starting over musically together and really in a different genre for both of us. The whole thing felt like starting over. It does for me specifically. I’ve been in Nashville for maybe 14 or 15 years, and now I feel like, for the first time, I’m doing country music. That’s a big starting over for me. All the people we’re writing with now, I’d never written with before. So yeah, it is starting over. It’s awesome.

What do you guys disagree about musically the most?

MacKenzie: Maybe stylistically. He might think something I say in a lyric isn’t cool and say, “I don’t think that’s cool.” But if there’s another writer in the room and they’re like, “No, that’s cool,” then…

Jake: I think in songwriting in general, when somebody says an idea out loud, my brain automatically doesn’t like it—but I don’t say that because that’s rude. With MacKenzie, every time she says something, I’m like, “I don’t know…” Then 10 or 15 seconds pass and I’m like, “Actually, I do like that.” So I have to watch that. Right now we’re trying to decide if we should add bass to a specific song. MacKenzie doesn’t think we need anything else in the song, and I think we need more.

How do you end up coming to a decision?

Jake: Honestly, in this particular case, we’ll probably record things onto the song and then take them off.

Happy Ever After You got co-signs from John Mayer, Brandi Carlile, Kendall Jenner. Did any of those feel surreal given where the song started—just as a voice memo?

MacKenzie: Yeah, they all felt surreal. It was a weird time because there was the first celebrity comment, and then they just kept coming. Comments don’t come in order, so sometimes you don’t even see them. My sister and my mom would be like, “Did you see that John Mayer commented?” We were so busy tracking everything that we didn’t even get to see them all.

Jake: I remember I was recording guitar for Happy Ever After You when she said, “Hey, Brandi Carlile said something.” I was like, “What?”.  Luke Combs, obviously. I feel like the Kendall one was later, and she never even tagged us in it. Somebody we knew was watching her story and sent it to us. So yeah, it’s been very cool.

Now you’re playing stadiums with Luke Combs and up for ACM Duo of the Year alongside Brooks & Dunn and Brothers Osborne. How do you even process how fast this has moved?

MacKenzie: When the ACM nominations came out, we were making blueberry waffles in our kitchen for our daughter. Then we found out, and we danced around with the waffle maker. That’s kind of what processing has been like. It’s been so busy. We have a kid, I’m filming a TV show—it’s almost like we’re just trying to get through today. For me, I’ll look back at my camera roll a month later and realize, “Holy crap, that was huge.” It takes a minute.

Jake: Yeah, and then you’re like, “Wait, did that just happen?” That was so cool. Did we really enjoy that in the moment? But you’re so busy that it’s just go, go, go, go, go.

You’re also juggling 9-1-1: Nashville and The Runarounds. How do you protect the creative space for Thelma and James when your plate is obviously very full?

MacKenzie: I don’t know if we protect it that well, honestly. I’m the kind of person who believes that if you show up every single day and try to be creative, you’re not always going to get something creative. But if you keep showing up, eventually you will. That’s what we do with Thelma and James. We’re both tired from filming or parenting or whatever, but if we keep showing up, some days we strike gold and some days we don’t. That’s just part of the job.

You both built two solo careers, found each other, almost missed the best creative partnership of your lives, and then accidentally went viral. What would you tell someone who’s just starting out and trying to find their sound and their people?

MacKenzie: I think I would tell them what I just said: every day you’re going to wake up and think, “I don’t want to do it today,” or “I don’t have any ideas,” or “The last hundred videos didn’t go viral.” But if you keep showing up and doing the work, writing the next song, posting the next video, trying to be creative every day, eventually you’ll find your sound and your audience.

Jake: I agree with you completely. I started with writing songs, so if I was talking to somebody, I’d say: write, write, write, and then write some more. I think it was Ed Sheeran who said writing songs is like turning on a faucet. At first, a bunch of rusty, nasty water comes out, but eventually you get the pure water. It just has to flush through. Songwriting is kind of like that. Write a bunch of turd songs, and eventually you’ll start honing your skill and hit those pure artist songs.

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